Did the influencer kill the podcast?

Sakshi & Naina have trending podcasts. Pic/Instagram

Picture this. You have a long commute to work, and it takes you an hour to reach. You sit in the train, or your car, or in a rickshaw, utterly bored. You open your phone but you don't want to waste your time on scrolling reels, but it's too loud outside to fully pay attention on a TV show right now. Here come in, podcasts. Although the medium has hit mainstream in India fairly recently, podcasts have long been a laid-back way to learn something new, while you drive, do laundry, or while you're cooking, making it the most lucrative choice for content creation.

Raj Shamani and Ranveer Allahbadia aka BeerBiceps

The biggest podcasts of today are all hosted by influencers, be it Moments of Silence with Sakshi Shivdasani and Naina Bhan, Untriggered with Amin Jazayeri, or The Ranveer Show by Ranveer Allahbadia. In 2021, Allahbadia made a deal with Spotify to make his podcast exclusive to the platform, releasing on Spotify one day before it appeared on his YouTube channel. This deal made him the first independent Indian creator to have an exclusive podcast deal with Spotify.

In such an environment, does it make sense for podcasting to be seen as a legitimate career option? It may have started as a way to share subject-matter expertise, to do long-form in-depth analysis on niche subjects, but today, it's moving towards an influencer-led numbers game. We spoke to some OG podcasters and industry experts to get a lowdown on just who works these days.

‘There are 20-30 people who just run everything'
Cyrus BroAcha, host of Cyrus Says

Cyrus Broacha, who first came into the limelight for his show MTV Bakra, switched to the medium in its very initial days. He says, "The one thing I like to do is talk to people, but sadly not everybody wants to hear me talk," he jokes, "But I really enjoy it. It's the least pressure, at least the way I do it. I like organic conversation. I hate prepping and asking questions as if it's a viva. Podcasts have got an intimacy like radio had when I was a very, very young boy. You just listen and they would just fill your head with all kinds of thoughts about music or life or stories." When asked about how podcasts are becoming celebrity oriented, he adds, "I don't know when India will reject this idea. We have the same three people in films, four people in cricket, and two-and-a-half superstar celebrities. There are 20-30 people who just run everything."

‘We only keep asking: Did you manage to get that celebrity?'
Kunal Vijaykar, host of A Century of Stories

Known for his TV show The Foodie with Kunal Vijaykar, he now hosts a podcast about the history of India. He says, "You'd be driving and listening to a podcast. Even now, some of the best podcasts are largely audio. But [in India] everybody seems to do video. That [older] format has nearly disappeared now. To add to that, it's all about celebrity interviews now. ‘Did you manage to get that actor on your podcast?' ‘Did you manage to get that celebrity?' This is the history of Indian entertainment. Everything starts off as a new medium and then falls back into Hindi films, sports, and celebs. This is the way we are. This is our DNA. And it's very difficult to run away from it."

‘People love depth when it is done well'
Amit Varma, host of The Seen and the Unseen

Amit Varma's The Seen and the Unseen is an immensely popular name in the business known for its in-depth discussions. But he doesn't do video, and each episode is anywhere from 3 to 5 hours long. He says, "I began by doing shorter episodes until I realised that I craved depth and so did others. I moved to deep dives into subjects that could last over three hours. And then deep dives into people, akin to oral histories, that could last over six hours. I have a 12-hour episode with Devdutt Pattanaik. My eight-hour episodes with Shanta Gokhale, Jerry Pinto and KP Krishnan are among my most beloved, and my 10-hour episode on the Indian economy went viral, which shows that people love depth when it is done well. Anyone who chases virality or follows what is trending will always be mediocre. I always ignored that, and focused on making the kind of content I would like to see. Content in India tends to be a mile wide and an inch deep. But I have learnt that people value depth, which is why my podcast worked."

‘New ideas, new guests are the future'
Anupam Gupta, host of Paisa Vaisa

Host of one of the top podcasts in the country, Anupam Gupta worked for about 2 decades in finance before making the jump to podcasts with IVM. He sheds some light on the future of the industry, "I think we're going to hit a peak soon, falling into the 80/20 model, where the top guys will make the most noise. Two things are going to become very important: new guests, and bringing in new ideas. We're already seeing new ideas everywhere, so bigger guests will become important."

‘Content is as important as luck'
Mae Mariyam, host of Maed In India

Maed In India is celebrating 10 years this month, but host Mae Mariyam has been championing independent music for much longer than that. She says, "People have an expectation that podcasts will make them big instantly not realising that podcasting is just like any other platform. Just because you start a YouTube channel or an Instagram account doesn't mean you'll become successful. You have to work hard, invest in your content, be consistent, and promote it like your life depended on it. People who have done well have spent years trying to get it right. So all that , with a bit of luck thrown in, is what works."

‘Regional content is where the deepest audience connection is'
Aditya Kuber, Founder of Bingepods

Bingepods is a podcast network, that has created podcasts with the likes of Ankur Warikoo, Anupama Chopra, and Ayaz Memon. Founder Aditya Kuber tells us, "We have a few creators we work with who have a good public profile, popular on Instagram, LinkedIn, or YouTube. At the same time, we work with a lot of creators we've built from the ground up - people who had a certain skill, ability, or speciality - in the last five or six years."

Kuber continues, "If a creator has reach and an audience already, it makes it easier. There's a clearer understanding of sponsors' return on investment, then. That said, there are cases where someone wants to target, say, the Odia-speaking market but there's a limited supply of creators there. In that case, you work with who is available, regardless of numbers." Kuber emphasises on the growing potential of regional podcasts,

"Regional is the future, and not just because of numbers. That's where the deepest audience connection is. We run several regional language shows like Marathi, Gujarati, Tamil, and Telugu. The quality of engagement - views, shares, comments - has been phenomenal. People ask for more because it feels personal."

‘Video-first needs recognisable faces'
Amit Doshi and Kavita Rajwade, founders of IVM Podcasts

IVM Podcasts is one of the largest podcast networks in India. They host shows like Cyrus Says with Cyrus Broacha, Paisa Vaisa with Anupam Gupta, and A Century of Stories with Kunal Vijaykar. Co-founder of IVM, Kavita Rajwade, tells us, "Podcasting was the answer for people who were looking for a new way to learn something by hanging out with curious smart friends that you had access to often. So in the audio-first format, we were looking for subject-matter experts and curious people who were pursuing deep knowledge across various genres. But a lot of experienced people are not on popular social platforms," she jokes, "But as we move to video-first, there is a shift towards wanting recognisable faces. That's also something that brands want."

Co-founder Amit Doshi adds, "There's also a comfort for people who are already used to being on camera, and that also helps. A lot of folks who started with audio-only are pressured by the camera. That's why even we shift towards recognisable faces." Of course, metrics and numbers are the ultimate measure of a good podcast, but according to Rajwade, a good parameter is how much discourse is it creating. Is it being discussed over dinner at home? She says, "You'll see a lot of people discussing a show in nooks and corners you wouldn't expect, that's a show of true success."

"The number of followers does help, but the audience doesn't always translate. We have worked with some fashion people who do big numbers on Instagram. But their audience didn't transalte to podcasting." Rajwade continues, "The long-form medium also has a certain cred attached to it, so that's always going to attract people to start podcasts."

When asked about where the podcasting industry is headed, Doshi says, "The conversation content economy is at a fairly nascent stage. Natural, non-fiction, intelligent conversation is at the core of IVM. Now that the itch has been scratched, we're going to want more and more of that. We'll still continue to see celebrity stuff, but we will also see people we don't know yet emerge from podcasts. For example, Raj Shamani was not a familiar name before his podcasts took off. We'll see more of that as well."