Over a meal of bibimbap and chicken wings, Varun Grover and Kunal Kamra discuss what it means to do political comedy today, the male privilege in stand-up, dealing with trolls and why Mumbai still surprises them
Varun Grover and Kunal Kamra enjoy a meal at Heng Bok in Bandra. Pics/Pradeep Dhivar
"The secret source of humour itself is not joy, but sorrow," said Mark Twain. The mood at our table at Heng Bok in Bandra is not one of sorrow, but it is easy to see why the great humorist said those words. "[Arvind] Kejriwal retweeted something I put up this morning.
That means, I am not checking any replies to the post today. Whenever he shares my tweet, bahut gaali padti hai," Kunal Kamra says matter- of-factly as he meets National Award-winning lyricist, screenwriter, and fellow comedian Varun Grover over lunch at the Korean restaurant. When their comedy is equated to the safety valve of democracy, Grover smiles and says, "Cooker jab phatega, it's the safety valve that will go off first."
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Known for his edgy political humour, Grover has ensured that he stays true to his convictions in the film and web world too - he is one of the writers of the well-received web show Sacred Games, and his lyrics, including those he has penned for the upcoming film Sui Dhaaga, are laced with earthy honesty. Kamra, whose web-based chat show Shut Up Ya Kunal is a culmination of his sharp, political stand-up comedy, is now ready to take his brand of humour abroad via a maiden tour of Australia and USA.
Snigdha: What does it mean to be a political comedian in India today?
Varun: It's a job that people should take up with some responsibility. Because comedy deals with storytelling, it is not confrontational. So even if you hate the comedian, the surprise element of a joke will make you laugh, and that relaxes you to listen for two more minutes. So, it's a strange kind of dialogue, but it's happening through comedy. Ideally, it should happen through journalism, but we are facing a crisis of journalism in the country. It's a role that I don't think comedy ever wanted to take up, but we have been forced into it. Some of us will do it, some of us will stop doing it one day or get killed or something.
Kunal: There are a lot of people who believe that political comedy should not be rooted in political opinion. But I am not walking on a rope, doing some kind of balancing act here. This whole idea of also cracking a joke on Rahul, Kejriwal or Mayawati is never-ending. If they come to power, I will crack jokes on them too. But right now, I have things to say about the current PM. I am sure Varun Sir will agree that we don't get the right wing. Congress kaun si kam right wing hai?
Varun: Most of the bad laws we are fighting right now have been instituted by the Congress. Right now, it's the BJP in power, so we'll ask them questions. When the Congress was in power, we asked them questions, too, and that's why there is a small contribution by comedians, and memes in building the narrative, which led to them losing so badly.
Snigdha: How tough is it to stick your neck out?
Kunal: It depends on your choices. Varun sensibly figured out that relying on comedy for a livelihood is not a good idea if you want to be outspoken. So he is writing. And if producers take away that opportunity, he will write books. If that's gone too...
Varun: Then I'll cook, or start a sandwich stall maybe. I am perfectly fine with it.
Kunal: This confidence was transferred by Varun, [Sanjay] Rajoura to some of us. If they have figured out a sustainable model for speaking their minds with responsibility, so will we. And if we don't do it responsibly, we will be kept in check by like-minded free thinkers.
Snigdha: And what about trolls, who also want to keep you in check?
Varun: Initially, if someone abuses you, you are civil and polite, thinking you may be able get your point across. But either he will trigger you so much that you will also abuse him - I am saying 'him' deliberately because all of them are men - or you will be forced to block them. So, I seldom engage with them. But being a man, it's easier to do that because you don't get direct threats. Gurmehar [Kaur] had to endure so much just because she held a placard that said something like give peace a chance. That day I realised if this can happen to her, who do you engage with?
Kunal: It's best to ignore trolls. There is no way to reply to someone who is abusing you. That's the kind of validation they seek.
(Salmon teriyaki, veg dolsot bibimbap and grilled chicken wings arrive.)
Snigdha: Do you enjoy trying new cuisines?
Varun: I love finding new places. I get back raw potatoes from whichever country I visit. You get to explore cosmopolitan options in Mumbai. This is a Korean restaurant; next door, you have Japanese. I don't fancy gadgets or cars. So, I love spending on food and the best places are not really expensive.
Kunal: When I am travelling, I take his recommendation for eating out.
Snigdha (to Kunal): You are a Bombaywallah, and (to Varun) you moved here. Does the city still manage to surprise you?
Kunal: My parents live in Shivaji Park. I was 26 when I moved out, and that's when I faced a reality check. But to be born and brought up in Bombay is such a privilege; 40 km idhar udhar and life would be so different.
Varun: I don't like the clutter of Andheri. From my Kandivali home, I can see the national park. I like to live within limited means and I love the local train. I think of the m-Indicator [city guide] app as my competitor. There's something strange about Bombay - the moment you feel you have figured it out, it punches you back.
Quick takes
A person you would love to do stand-up with:
Kunal: I would like to
do a show with Kanhaiya Kumar.
Varun: On those lines, I would love to do a show with Arundhati Roy.
The most sporting city you have performed in:
Varun: Performing in Bangalore is fun because the Hindi-speaking audience look forward to listening to stand-up in Hindi.
Kunal: Commercially also, Bangalore shows are always sold out. Because most people come from other cities; they need a weekend plan.
Your views on the Indian web scene.
Varun: Indian web is not in its nascent stage any more. So we should stop giving it that leeway. Good work ought to come out of it, and I am quite disappointed with the scene here, given the freedom they have.
Kunal: The Internet has to understand that its competition is not with television, but with better web shows abroad. We are still happy with the consolation that web is better than TV. But anything is better than TV.
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